Negative traits

[Enrico Rizzo]

In a recent game the question of calling negative traits came up so here it is.

If a character has multiple Negative traits of the same type, i.e. Bestial x3, do we call 'Bestial' and gain the benefit of all three or do we have to call all three Bestial traits?

[Thoth ST]

You have to call all three or however many applicable Traits they have of that type. By calling one, you only force them to bid one extra. By calling two, they bid two and so on.

If someone has Bestial x3, and you know they have Bestial x3, then you can call Bestial or Bestial, Bestial, or Bestial, Bestial, Bestial. By doing so they add an applicable number of Traits according to the ones you call out.
_________________
Patron of: knowledge, secrets, writing, and scribes
Storyteller
limestone_king@yahoo.ca

"It must be Wins-day."

[Fish]

Question:

Does Mask of 1000 Face render Negative traits related to appearance inapplicable?

The specific in game scenario that brought this up was The Haunting (social challenge) being used on a Nosferatu. My calling was something like "You wear your Repugnant nature on your flesh, and so it shall haunt you" The player countered with something like "I'm using Mask of 1000 Faces, my Clan Flaw doesn't apply, it's in the rules somewhere."
_________________
Fish; Malkavian;
Played by Doug
If you cannot be leaders and rulers then be robbers and thieves you men of knowledge.

[Parson Fairfax]

[Viktor Kruel]

Page 35 in Laws of the Night (revised) under Nosferatu clan disadvantage:

The hideous countenance of the Nosferatu precludes ever holding normal social relationships without the use of concealment or misdirection. No Nosferatu may possess Social Traits Alluring, Gorgeous, or Seductive without calling on special powers (such as the Obfuscate discipline) to gain those Traits. Furthermore, all Nosferatu suffer from the Negative Social Traits Repugnant x3 whenever their true forms are apparent. These Traits may never be removed with Experience Traits of Free Traits. A Nosferatu in his "normal" visage cannot initiate Social Challenges except for the purpose of intimidation, although he may defend against Social Challenges normally.

-----------------------

Basically, to make it apparent, you would have to pierce the Mask of 1000 Faces or the Nosferatu would need to drop it prior to the social challenge.
_________________
In service,

Viktor Kruel
Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Acknowledged within the domain of Prince Frederick Pennington
Known Feared as the Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Deemed Feared for actions against the hunters in Ottawa
Seen as Efficient by former Primogen Mendred Phonris, clan Nosferatu, Ottawa

[Parson Fairfax]

The problem with playing that rule "as is", is that the nosferatu clan flaw is strangely... lesser than other clans flaws... in that it can largely be avoided. Though, to be fair, the Nosferatu clan flaw is "6 traits" (Monsterous + 3 negative traits), and most other clan flaws, where there's a buyable equivalent, are 2 trait (Brujah - short fuse, Ventrue - selective feeding (though I can't find that one in any books atm) Malkavian - derangement... etc)

But, it also suggests that even though they're not categorized, negative social traits can be appearance-related and thus concealed and avoided. Is "bestial" an appearance trait? How about "feral"?
_________________
Yr. most Humble and Obedient Servant,
Revered Brujah Primogen of Ottawa,
Devoted defender of the Masquerade,
the Diligent Parson Henry Fairfax.

[Dietrich F. von Kreiger]

In the Laws of the Night book, Feral is described as behavioural, not appearance-based. Bestial, on the other hand, is appearance.

[Viktor Kruel]

Negative Traits, as far as I am concerned (which means it's just my opinion lol), are roleplay devices as much as they are fun to call out on someone. As it was just pointed out with the feral and bestial, there are some you can RP and some you can't (but should likely tag if it is obvious). For a Nos, 6 dots in negatives is a heavy as sin negative and they overcome it by concealing their natural visage with 12 points of obfuscate just to sit down and have a conversation. You may think that it's a cheap way out, but I dunno, Obfuscate 3 does cost a pretty penny.

Like I said... Auspex it next time. Could be well forth it to force someone to call Intimidating, Intimidating, and.... Intimidating.
_________________
In service,

Viktor Kruel
Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Acknowledged within the domain of Prince Frederick Pennington
Known Feared as the Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Deemed Feared for actions against the hunters in Ottawa
Seen as Efficient by former Primogen Mendred Phonris, clan Nosferatu, Ottawa

[Fish]

[Viktor Kruel]

I have to ask, Doug...

Are you unhappy or displeased with how the game is run? I mean, it seems as though you challenge the rules an awful lot and place a lot of blame for it on the "system" (albeit, a lot of them are stock rules right from the books themselves). I mean, if I griped even half as much about something I didn't like the way you appear to, I'd have quit it twice over.
_________________
In service,

Viktor Kruel
Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Acknowledged within the domain of Prince Frederick Pennington
Known Feared as the Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Deemed Feared for actions against the hunters in Ottawa
Seen as Efficient by former Primogen Mendred Phonris, clan Nosferatu, Ottawa

[Thoth ST]

[Murray]

I think Doug just meant White Wolf's published MET rules.
_________________
Murray B. Toreador. Former [censored] of [excised], known as [omitted] by [anonymous].

[Thoth ST]

No, I don't think so. And neither do many people that I talk to. Whether it's here on the forum or at game itself.
_________________
Patron of: knowledge, secrets, writing, and scribes
Storyteller
limestone_king@yahoo.ca

"It must be Wins-day."

[Dietrich F. von Kreiger]

Wouldn't ALL appearance-based traits be masked by Mask of 1000 Faces?

I mean, it's hiding your appearance, so you shouldn't be able to call on appearance traits, for better or worse, unless you are using the Obfuscate discipline in such a manner as to give you the appearance of having more.

Clarity on that would be appreciated, though it won't really affect me in gameplay.
_________________
Dietrich Freiherr von Krieger
Acknowledged in the city of Ottawa
Deemed Competent

[Fish]

[Viktor Kruel]

Well, you're SoL there. I don't like coffee, I am allergic to hops and I don't have a grievance with you per se. I did, however, ask why are you so moody about ObN? It's not perfect. Frank, Helene and even Brad (in some minor narration type of way) know that. But, we don't play it for the goal of perfection... We play it to be someone other than ourselves and to have fun.
_________________
In service,

Viktor Kruel
Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Acknowledged within the domain of Prince Frederick Pennington
Known Feared as the Sheriff of the City of Ottawa
Deemed Feared for actions against the hunters in Ottawa
Seen as Efficient by former Primogen Mendred Phonris, clan Nosferatu, Ottawa

[Cyrus]

[Fish]

[Dietrich F. von Kreiger]

Doug, here's a simple question:

Do you like ObN or not?
_________________
Dietrich Freiherr von Krieger
Acknowledged in the city of Ottawa
Deemed Competent

[Fish]